So IMHO KDE has this problems: large applications are not that good to maintain (compared to C#), mem leaks etc.

Anshul :

Mono is available in the “main” repository, so I’m assuming that this is the officially supported repository and not a multiverse/universe “iffy-kinda” repository. Now Winforms is *not* covered under the CP, only C# is. Then how is Ubuntu splitting winforms, ado.net from the base Mono package?

Assuming you want the answer to this, and aren’t just fishing…

Ubuntu supports source packages in “main” (the largely-commercially-supported Free section) building binary components which are then moved to “universe” (the Free but community-maintained section). The “mono” source package is one of these examples – a large percentage of the binary packages produced by the “mono” source package (from about 94 total binary packages produced) are moved to Universe.

As it stands today, WinForms is in Main, although never installed at runtime. This is due to a messy chain of dependencies (the “antlr” source package provides some java libraries used by Ubuntuish things such as the Eucalyptus EC2 support – antlr also provides and builds Mono bindings, which use the Ant-like “nant” build system; The “nant” build system depends on “ndoc” in order to support building documentation in a given format at compile time; “ndoc” depends on WinForms as it uses a component of it to render one of its five or so supported output documentation formats). This is NOT a desirable situation, politically, which is why I’ve patched “nant” to remove support for “ndoc”. The patched package is waiting for sponsorship in pkg-cli-apps SVN. Once it gets sponsored, I can request a sync to Karmic – and once it gets synced, ndoc (and with it WinForms) will automatically be relegated to Universe as there will no longer be anything keeping them in.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=libmono-winforms2.0-cil

mono (The binary ‘libmono-winforms2.0-cil’ is part of the mono package)

The Mono .NET development environment

Available in: dapper, hardy, intrepid, jaunty, karmic

Mono is available in the “main” repository, so I’m assuming that this is the officially supported repository and not a multiverse/universe “iffy-kinda” repository. Now Winforms is *not* covered under the CP, only C# is. Then how is Ubuntu splitting winforms, ado.net from the base Mono package?

Fedora is probably gonna do the right thing and throw out the infringing stuff out of their repos and place it in rpmfusion. I’ve started a similar discussion in Mandriva as well and want to see the infringing stuff under the non-free or better outside of the repos in PLF.

nope. it’s been happening long before the MS CP. Ubuntu/Debian have split mono long before the CP. I’m sure of Jaunty and perhaps even Intrepid (btw this was done so that apps don’t need to drag more dependencies then needed, which freed some space on the Ubuntu CD, not because of some alleged patents) .
What Miguel is doing is splinting this in the main mono source trunk so that it’s easier for people to package mono for their distro of choice. Since now we know which parts are a-ok and which might have a undisclosed patent.

zekopeko :

@Anshul
or perhaps he did it so that it’s easier for distros to ship parts they want, and easier to decide if you want the non-ECMA part in your distro or not.

Yeah, he did that only *after* MS came out with their statement. He *knew* that he was playing with questionable material. Yet he chose to say the opposite.

or perhaps he did it so that it’s easier for distros to ship parts they want, and easier to decide if you want the non-ECMA part in your distro or not.

Secondly, KDE relies on a far superior Qt framework, which has a technological edge over the GTK/C combo by GNOME. This is one of the main reasons on why GNOME/GTK developers want to use Mono/Python/Vala etc. With Qt/C++ as the established base for KDE, why bother about Mono/C#?

Miguel, you’re one class act…in your blog after you stopped jumping with joy regarding the recent M$ Community Promise stuff…you, yourself decided to fork Mono into ECMA and non-ECMA compliant versions. This has been conveniently ignored by everyone, since it was the last entry in your blog.

You knew all along that you were violating some patents, yet you went on crowing around saying that nothing’s gonna happen. Sure, nothing’s gonna happen to your employer- Novell as they went to bed with M$, but your gonna leave everyone else exposed. Thank God for RedHat/Fedora who’ve chosen to play it ultra-safe. The rest of the distros, and in particular Ubuntu is clearly in the firing line.

-Anshul

PS: Miguel, I really like Opensuse (my second choice after Mandriva)…not the GNOME part that you’re associated with.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#Moonlight

This effort will exclude future versions of Banshee and F-Spot from being in Fedora. Maybe that is what Novell wants.

Yaro :

Miguel, you’re such a Microsoft shill I think your credibility when you defend yourself that way is shot.
Let me put it outright to you, Miguel, the SECOND you turn GNOME into a platform for the patent deathtrap you brought to Linux is the MOMENT I go KDE or Xfce and not look back.
Stop being a veritable traitor to everything Linux stands for simply because your dream in life is to work for Microsoft (Assuming you don’t already.)
Too bad I don’t have all the skills to fork GNOME into a clearly non-de Icaza-poisoned version. I’d ditch pieces of shit like Tomboy and F-spot, too. And Banshee, holy hell.

What can one say about such ad hominem attacks? It is people like you Yaro that damage the community. You are the poison on the community no Miguel. He, at least brought us Gnome and Mono. What is your accomplishment?
And what do you know what Linux stands for? The only thing you have is your hate and rage. And this is something the FLOSS community doesn’t need nor want.

Let’s tone the personal attacks down one notch, please. This one is getting just a bit beyond my comfort level. We try to have a one personal attack or less per post policy.

I don’t like what the man is doing either, but he has came here several times to give his side of things. I’d rather interact and err on the side of restraint than establish an echo chamber of rage. If it helps, think of it as taking the moral high ground!

Thanks and thanks much for the comments!