Per request, I’m trying to tweak the OpenID support to act a bit more sensible.
OpenID did work before, but it didn’t say so, and still required a name and email due to some javascript checks in the template.
I’ve pulled out the initial log-in form and stuck in a simpler one. I’ve tested most of what I can think of and it all seems to work as expected.
If you get utter failure to be able to comment, please drop me an email or hit me up on XMPP: jason [at] mono-nono [dot] com
#1 by Jo Shields on July 22nd, 2009
How about a tweak to the CSS so the OpenID logo on the “recent comments” works properly? I can’t test it (for some reason all images disappear when i enable CSS editing in WebDev Toolbar), but I think the openid_link class needs some padding-left. which it has, yet doesn’t seem to use. I wonder how a different browser copes…
#2 by Jo Shields on July 22nd, 2009
Nope, text overlaps icon in Chromium too
#3 by Lex on July 23rd, 2009
Why bother, just shut down your site already. And go do something USEFUL, like making a facebook group.
#4 by zekopeko on July 23rd, 2009
Or write code to replace all of those “evil” mono app.
#5 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
@zekopeko
That’s twice or more you have insinuated I don’t write code.
I do. GPL code. Released for public consumption. In my own projects and I’ve even contributed to a few other projects in the past.
If you know who I am you already know that.
If you do not know who I am then you can not assume I do not write code.
Either way, please stop. It doesn’t matter one whit and is obnoxious and irrelevant. That whole “real”/”faux” community thing is disgusting, as is the idea that one must be a coder to speak.
#6 by Jo Shields on July 23rd, 2009
I’m pretty sure it’s been made clear that one does not need to be a coder to be a contributor. Personally I think artists & designers are our scarcest, and most needed resource. But maybe that’s just me
#7 by zekopeko on July 23rd, 2009
mmmm… I wasn’t implying that you don’t write code nor did I assume that you don’t, but that your time would be better spent coding.You did say that you are working on a pet PyQt project. Just my opinion.
And neither do I think that you have to be a coder do speak your mind.
#8 by zekopeko on July 23rd, 2009
I wholeheartedly agree on this one. I think that the gnome-do guys showed me the light on how much we suck in this area (by way of positive example of course). And let’s not forget the Oxygen team. And usability gal’s that pop-up every so often on various planets.
Nice to see a real push in this area as of late.
#9 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
So you are privy to my daily schedule? You can decide how another man should spend his time?
But if a mono critic should suggest that perhaps a developer’s effort would be better spent on a non-C# language, that is anathema?
Surely you see in impossibility of holding both positions at the same time. You can not criticize my use of time and talents and at the same time assert that others can not be criticized for the same thing.
#10 by Jo Shields on July 23rd, 2009
I think the point is that you’ll elicit greater change to the things that offend you with deeds rather than words. Since none of the people reading this who are already in a position to elicit change are going to be swayed by your arguments.
#11 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
True. But those people aren’t going to be swayed by any arguments.
The point is not to get Team Mono to stop – they aren’t. Novell is not going to recant the Microsoft deal. No one thinks that.
But through critique we can get the message out that such deals are unacceptable, and that such adoption of the fruits of such deals needs close examination.
We can also raise the cost in the future for other companies that think it’s funny to play clever games with the GPL, and to signal to “pragmatists” that ideals are something to be concerned with.
#12 by zekopeko on July 23rd, 2009
It was my opinion, a suggestion, not a demand. I was merely voicing my opinion that a persons time with unique skills would certainly help far more the FLOSS community then this site. I think that FSF covers that niche rather nicely.
Let’s also mention that if you had a comparable application set to Banshee/Tomboy/Gnome-do/etc with a strong community around them, your (and others) “ranting” would be far better taken then in the “true” community because you would have code to show for.
It’s not like I can compile your blog postings and use them on my desktop.
What I do believe is an anathema, is when people demand developers that have already chosen their language/platform of choice to abandon it for another. And what’s even worse is that “those” people demand it for purely ideological reasons.
Just to strengthen my position on this: I do not decide how you spend your time. It’s up to you. I have no control over you nor I wish it.
What I can criticize is your logic that my suggestion how you spend your time could be better used contributing code/localization/etc. instead of posting (in huge volume), is somehow comparable to demands that one shouldn’t code in a specific language (that the person chose no less) and that a FLOSS platform should me marginalized.
I’d like to mention that writing code is far less divisive and more beneficial to the community then posts attacking applications written in a specific language.
And again: I do not want you to stop posting. It (free speech) is your right as much as it’s mine.
#13 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
Just so I am clear:
1. You are now on board with Lefty, asserting that I am not a member of the “real” community?
2a. I need a “comparable application set” to be taken seriously? Exactly how many lines of code do I have to release to join you guys?
2b. If I can produce that many lines of code, do all my arguments suddenly become Y% more credible? Do I suddenly become immune to being pushed into the “faux” community on some other grounds?
3. Everything I have posted on this blog is “ranting”? I have raised no rational or reasonable points?
4. I (or someone I referenced in support) has demanded developers choose or do not choose a specific platform?
5a. I post in “huge” volume
5b. This is a bad thing?
I just want to get the goalposts nailed down.
#14 by Anonymous on July 23rd, 2009
Jason,
I’ve been following Lefty’s talks as well about the real and “faux” community. It’s one thing to put up your opinions and defend them in the comments and reason them out so that other people might change theirs – that’s perfectly acceptable.
But the FOSS community will not change. The people who write code using/for mono will want to defend their platform, and the people who write code on other platforms will never know what the fuss is all about.
The issue when it starts to bother me – is when you call these writings significant ‘contributions’. It might enlighten some people and change some opinions, but when it’s re-repeated, one-sided and tireless, it ceases to really benefit the community. There might not be too many situations when Roy’s articles brought about a significant, positive impact on the community.
Talk to a real lawyer and find out a credible idea about what might happen. Try to look at points from both sides, and aim for peaceful coexistance so that the users will be benefited.
In my state, controlled by a communist state government, people start striking and boycotting for very minor issues, leading it to be one of the poorer and backward states in the country as most people are interested in arguing rather than debating.
What concerns me that everyone’s more concerned with having an intellectual argument and debating, quoting and misquoting everyone else’s points. So here’s mine:
Mono won’t go away. It’s been here for 8 years or so and attracted so much controversy only in the last few months. We need to find a consensus so that we can all get back to writing good applications for the users.
If you prove mono is bad, and have it taken away so that it’ll avoid potential risks, it’s similarly akin to taking away someone’s car so they’ll avoid potential accidents.
#15 by zekopeko on July 23rd, 2009
Just so I’m clear. You are viewing everything I said with your “I just read lefty’s faux fundies post” glasses so you believe I’m attacking you based on his view. This is not the case. Attribute those thoughts to my poor writing skills.
A better word would be “mainstream” (fringe vs mainstream that sort of deal) community. I’m not lumping you in with Roy and the crazies ( (nor am I close to taking such a stance).
As stated above I don’t push you into the “faux” category. But my belief remains that you would better serve the community in a more productive/less divisive role then this blog.
Quote’s are your friend here. Was pointing out the volume and number of your posts not your reasoning. Non-verbal signs really make online conversing hard sometimes.
By trying to ostracize Mono this is one of the indirect results. Unless you have some other hidden agenda that I’m missing.
From my perspective yes.
Well considering the estimated time you spend on this blog we go back to the 2nd part of the answer I gave concerning 2a and 2b.
American football or soccer?
#16 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
@anonymous,
I see what you are saying, but I think there is a little too much of grouping all critics together there.
I don’t think we’ve reached the point here where everything is re-repeated, one-sided and tireless – at least I don’t think my blog entries are repetitive, I’ve been trying to cover a different point each time.
The problem with advocating “peaceful coexistance” is that really means “mono critics shut up”. Right? And I already posted what I thought about that.
Anyway, we will see how things shake out here in the near future.
#17 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
@zekopeko
Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.
#18 by Lex on July 23rd, 2009
When the post “More OpenID twiddling for comments” attracts so much discussion on your less than a month old blog, you KNOW you must be doing something right.
Keep it coming!
#19 by Anonymous on July 23rd, 2009
@Lex:
It was you how diverted the conversation in the first place, with the confused notion that starting a facebook group would actually do some use (when has it ever)
@Jason:
Let’s face it – it seems like you don’t have *anything* against mono, except for the fact that there are potential patent concerns. The remaining posts are defending Mono critics, and pointing out how mono might actually become a more important part of the open source ecosystem than it already is.
It’s time everyone started thinking about finding solutions than broadcasting and defending opinions. I’m sick and tired of opinions and have learnt firsthand that nobody will ever agree with anyone’s opinion on things.
All this Faux nonsense aside the way I see it:
Pro mono camp – Developers who find this technology and stack better, and couldn’t care less if it came from microsoft or the third reich.
Anti mono camp – Foss enthusiasts who are worried about patent threats and are uncomfortable with the concept of having Microsoft’s technology on their machines.
You or me will ever understand Jo’s or Miguel’s point of view because we didn’t spend many years of our lives working on something. And even if I did, I don’t want other people to dismiss it without truly understanding why I did that.
#20 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
@Anonymous:
The “facebook” thing was from another post where someone (in all apparent seriousness) suggested that starting a Facebook account would be more useful than this blog:
#21 by Jason on July 23rd, 2009
@Anonymous:
I’m sorry you think the only thing I have against Mono is patent concerns. I tried to make the whole “Does Mono hurt Microsoft” piece reflect non-patent related concerns.
One of my concerns is that the more successful the fruits of the Novell-Microsoft deal are, the more encouraged other companies will be to strike up such anti-community deals.
Mono is a side beneficiary of the deal, and Moonlight a direct beneficiary of it, so I think that is a reasonable thing to be brought into the discussion as well.