Lex :

@Jo Shields
You have no excuse abusing people’s trust for some pitiful argument against some Roy. Who the hell is Roy and why are you so obsessed with him anyway?

Which trust is being abused?

Doesn’t there need to be trust first?

And an actual abuse?

In what way am I not delivering what I say on the tin, to anyone who explicitly trusts me enough to install?

As for Roy, he’s the kid who runs Boycott Novell. Most lies relating to Mono can be traced back there if you follow them enough. His childishness, and its regurgitation, have moved from annoying me to amusing me.

“The point here is when I do something “just for show”, there’s a working ISO at the end of it.”
Wow man… you have a superiority complex or something. But you know what, when I do something that looks like an attempt to help people, it is genuine.

What do you want, exactly? In the 3 years since Edgy, none of “you lot” has bothered to produce what you demand – Ubuntu with Mono removed. Not only have I produced what you demand, but even instructions so you can do it yourselves without my “taint” – and yet still it’s not enough. You don’t just look a gift horse in the mouth, you throw it off a cliff and complain if can’t fly.

Here is a reminder for you about what Ubuntu SHOULD stand for (from ubuntu webpage):
>The essence of Ubuntu is that “a person is a person through other people”. It describes humanity as “being-with-others” and prescribes what “being-with-others” should be all about. Ubuntu emphasises sharing, consensus, and togetherness. It’s a perfect concept for Free Software and open source.<

I don’t think you understand what those words mean.

You know what, if you are an example of the consensus and togetherness in Ubuntu, then I think that distro is not going to last very long. I have dumped it several month ago because of mono, and after your stunt I dont think I am ever coming back.

There is great consensus and togetherness in Ubuntu. I have nothing but respect for my peers and the work they do, other than gentle teasing reserved for the Java packagers. If people come to Ubuntu development channels looking for help in sharing contributions, and I know the answer, I’ll tell them. Someone wants to know something, or help with fixing something, I’ll try to help.

Bravo for your logic though, nicely done. If I make a release which instead of removing Mono, I add every single Mono app, then will you come rushing back? How about if I make a modified Fedora or openSUSE CD?

And for your information: one does not have to make a mono-free Ubuntu, there are OTHER distributions.

Then what is achieved by all pissing and moaning regarding Mono being in Ubuntu, a decision made in 2006 by the Desktop people? If Ubuntu is a “lost cause”, then would the “anti-Mono” people make non-contributing demands over it, and why would they act affronted that nobody’s listening?

If nobody had said “Ubuntu should be Mono free” or “there should be a Mono-free version of Ubuntu” then I wouldn’t have done it.

You have no excuse abusing people’s trust for some pitiful argument against some Roy. Who the hell is Roy and why are you so obsessed with him anyway?

“The point here is when I do something “just for show”, there’s a working ISO at the end of it.”

Wow man… you have a superiority complex or something. But you know what, when I do something that looks like an attempt to help people, it is genuine.

Here is a reminder for you about what Ubuntu SHOULD stand for (from ubuntu webpage):
>The essence of Ubuntu is that “a person is a person through other people”. It describes humanity as “being-with-others” and prescribes what “being-with-others” should be all about. Ubuntu emphasises sharing, consensus, and togetherness. It’s a perfect concept for Free Software and open source.<

You know what, if you are an example of the consensus and togetherness in Ubuntu, then I think that distro is not going to last very long. I have dumped it several month ago because of mono, and after your stunt I dont think I am ever coming back.
And for your information: one does not have to make a mono-free Ubuntu, there are OTHER distributions.

Lex :

@Jo Shields
What was your purpose in making that custom distro?

To prove a point.

From your own words:
“Generally speaking though, CLR’s under-exposure serves my purposes well – as a demonstration of the complete futility of doing what Roy wants.”

That’s right. Roy’s decision not to mention that someone actually made a Mono-free Ubuntu version (something he and his groupies have been crying out for for a long time) served as a nice demonstration of how utterly worthless it is to give a single concession to that crowd – essentially weakening their arguing power.

FWIW that silence was broken after Roy’s idol Sam “race card” Varghese made a positive post about it on ITwire.

So you have made it to prove some point… and the name of course helps you prove that point. Whether or not I am going to make a version with a different name wont change the fact that you consider your point “proved”.

The name doesn’t prove a point, it merely amuses me.

Was it all just for show?

Not all for show – but the expectation was that it would end up as such, since nobody would take the hint.

The point here is when I do something “just for show”, there’s a working ISO at the end of it. The point to prove is that crating a Mono-free Ubuntu is absolutely not difficult, that anyone could have done it at any point in the past three years – and, to an extent, that despite the simplicity with which people could have achieved something tangible, that they still think pissing & moaning is the right way to achieve their goals. Read my latest blog post, it pretty much covers the whole thing.

Somehow I do not feel all warm and fuzzy inside because of your actions. In fact, I feel manipulated and treated like a pawn just so you can prove something.

I don’t want you to feel warm and fuzzy. Did you READ the description of the torrent on TPB? No, warm and fuzzy isn’t the goal. I’m not trying to appease you. I’m trying to motivate you. I’ve uploaded a sarcastic demonstration of your (the collective your) lack of motivation. If anything, I’m trying to annoy you into some actual software-based response of the “well fuck Shields and fuck his chinchillas too, let’s make a PROPER non-insulting Mono-less Ubuntu. With blackjack. And hookers.” variety. Make a better Ubuntu in your own image – you even have a damn starting point and instructions now.

Not to mention the fact that I’ve wasted my bandwidth proving your point. I must admit, at first I fell for it, but if you look past the surface it’s not too hard to see what is really going on.

Be sure to send the bandwidth bill to my PA.

You can argue all you want about some points. But at the end of the day your actions show your true nature.

Oh, and let’s hear all about my “true nature”. With pictures, preferably!

What was your purpose in making that custom distro?

From your own words:
“Generally speaking though, CLR’s under-exposure serves my purposes well – as a demonstration of the complete futility of doing what Roy wants.”

So you have made it to prove some point… and the name of course helps you prove that point. Whether or not I am going to make a version with a different name wont change the fact that you consider your point “proved”.

Was it all just for show?

Somehow I do not feel all warm and fuzzy inside because of your actions. In fact, I feel manipulated and treated like a pawn just so you can prove something.

Not to mention the fact that I’ve wasted my bandwidth proving your point. I must admit, at first I fell for it, but if you look past the surface it’s not too hard to see what is really going on.

You can argue all you want about some points. But at the end of the day your actions show your true nature.

As it happens, the abbreviation was an accident – but one that makes me giggle.

As to the name….. well, obviously I don’t think the anti-Mono “side” is “right”. I wouldn’t contribute on what I do if I did. Is the name a dig? Yes. But perhaps the point, if people weren’t doing such a terrifying job of missing it, should be I made a custom distro, I can put what I want in it and call it what I want. And people can either act affronted (see: Roy) or they can re-take the name for themselves & use it as a badge of honour (see: Jason) which is a FAR healthier attitude.

If you want to make your own version with a more “pleasing” name, go ahead – I even uploaded the damn recipe I used (check the comments on my blog). it might be a first step towards someone else taking some responsibility for making a “better” Mono-free Ubuntu. Not that I don’t enjoy the current irony, of course.

Very well, my generous host. Please be kind and put yourself in shoes of a linux user browsing these pages. If the said user made it on this site he has some concerns over mono, such as:
“mono is terrible, it must be avoided”, or
“mono is so great, people should stop bashing it”.
Let’s assume the user in question has actually taken time to browse wikipedia and learn a bit about mono and .net. Or we can go even further and pretend that the user in question is a developer, and a concerned would very likely know what CLR is.
Now, you have to ask yourself, do these users know the reason Jo has chosen the name CLR for this remix? And more importantly you have to ask if they believe Jo.

So, for just a moment pretend that you do not know of any excuses to choose such name. Then read your comment. Scratch your head in confusion.
Then pretend you are a pro-mono person and read your comment again. Now smile.
Either way, to an average user without the deep knowledge of the subject your comments look… rather silly.

No, Jo explained early on his reasoning for chosing the name “Chicken Little”, which included the fact that it intialized to CLR.

I don’t begrudge him his naming choice.

I mean, are you for real, Jo? Or is it just an elaborate form of trolling…

@Jason
“It is a bit of a misrepresentation to state that since people don’t think Mono should be in the default that will automatically translate over to people adopting CLR.”

LOL man, sorry to break it to you, but you’ve been royally… anyway…

Part of the issue here, to me at least, is given that:

1. It is easy to remove Mono from Ubuntu
2. Any respin faces a large barrier to adoption

What then, could make CLR a viable ongoing project, rather than just a one- (or two-) off item?

If it is just removal of Mono, then that is probably not worth it.

If it is just removal of Mono, and only then substituting of two (or possibly three) Mono apps that are in Ubuntu by default, that is more, but probably still not enough.

So, that’s why I am thinking of things like those that are on the list.

Because a mono-free respin is not the equivalent to a mono-free Ubuntu, this something that I think is worth asking.