Java is just a platform, it runs many languages. JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Scala, Groovy from the top of my head. So, to make it clear, are you suggesting that all of these languages are much harder to work with than XAML?!

No. I’m suggesting that all of these languages have just about nothing in common with XAML. XAML is an XML-based language user interfaces and interaction. You might as well claim that any of the languages you’ve mentioned is a replacement for HTML.

zune is not cool. Well… let me bring you the news: neither is the silverlight.

When I start choosing my implementation languages on the basis of “coolness” rather than actual technical merit, I’ll let you know.

silverlight is neither the most popular nor cross platform

A few days ago, a version of Moonlight with a superset of 2.0-features came out; I’m expecting a 3.0-compatible release in a few months. We’re using 3.0 right now, and may upshift to 4.0 if it looks like cross-platform compatibility will be possible at the time of release.

As for not installing Silverlight, fine, that’s your choice. Good fortune to you. But don’t make the mistake of thinking it’s “totally useless”: people said that about both Flash and Java applets in the past, and time has proven them incorrect.

I was watching this tv show the other day. One of the main characters needs to put on some music, and be quick about it. So he is asking his friend: “can I borrow your player”. The friend says: “sure I’ll go get my zoon… … …” The main character replies in disgust: “You have a zoon?! oO” His friend continues: “Just kidding, ill go grab my ipod”

The moral is: zune is not cool. Well… let me bring you the news: neither is the silverlight. It is just one of many technologies and languages available. And silverlight is neither the most popular nor cross platform. So thanx, but no thanx… I am not going to waste my time installing silverlight just for the demo app… because it is totally useless otherwise, since everyone uses flash or java.

Thank you for your comments!

I agree with you that the GPL is a big thorn, which I think is partially the cause of a lot of the anti-GPL messaging. It suits MS (and Novell) very well to downplay the GPLv3.

In fact it would be quite difficult for MS/Novell to get behind the GPLv3 considering much of it was specifically written to prevent the sort of deals they engage in!

I think the real goal is the GPL licensing that seems to be the biggest thorn in Microsofts eye. Especially GPLv3 that makes any open source licensed with it completely untouchable for MS thanks to the patent rules.

Mono is just a sideshow that idiots like Novell, Miquel and other minions plays along in. Its sole purpose was just for MS to be able to lie and say dotnet was platform agnostic like Java.

I sadly work with Novell products and the only ones that gives constant grief is the ones made in dotnet/mono. Go figure.

No, it is more pragmatic. Pragmatic in the sense that Icaza has a certain set of ideals that he is willing to compromise to achieve his intended goal more effectively. You are idealistic, not willing to use proprietary software even when it offers an advantage, fair enough, but pragmatism isn’t a subjective term.

No. It is still subjective, only the supposed “ideals” are different. I can just as easily say that I am compromising my ideal of running all the “Cool Stuff” in order to achieve my intended goal more effectively.

I’m not quite sure how the openness of data removes the need for a rich application that displays it?

There is no need for “rich” applications if my computer can process the information directly. There is no need for a gate if there is no fence.

Or why you want that information to be accessed by a program installed on your machine, when there’s a reason why you made it a webbased app in the first place?

My point is I don’t want webbased applications in the first place.

Not to sound rude, but do you have a clue what you’re talking about?
Miguel de Icaza is not a developer anymore. His job is managing projects, affiliations, writing statements and representing his employers/projects. He doesn’t write much code, like Linus Torvalds. He is a politician in the computer business world, like many other leader figures.
What we hear from him (and from any other corporate spokesman) is _not_ innocent enthusiasm, but the agenda of his financial backers. Mind you, that’s absolutely not “evil” or anything in that direction… it’s the way the show runs.
But claiming it’s not about politics is a bit naive.

OK, I should have said “Miguel de Icaza is a developer at heart“. And I do think that he is, after all, he did start Mono for the reasons I stated, and there was no financial pressure to that because well, he started it on his own accord.

We have to disagree here, and you cannot speak for all users. For example, after explaining the difference to her, my girlfriend does care about Free Software

I never implied I was speaking for anyone but myself.

We managed quite well without Silverlight until now, haven’t we? Sure there’s room for improvement, but it still remains to be seen if it does make enough of a difference. So far, not.
I’m doubtful that Silverlight 4 will lead to vastly superior web apps that make users flock to them in hordes.
And I’m curious about the future development of HTML5. Badmouthing alternatives won’t prove your point.

Of course you can do without, but the fact that it’s better at some things seems like a compelling reason for using it when it fits your needs, no?

On Compiz: my reasoning is that it was claimed that Compiz is a superior window manager to whatever Windows uses. That led me to thinking what made that so and all I could think of was that it had more effects, and that I find those wobbly and bouncy windows to be pretty tacky.

- I don’t care when a bad piece of software is free software. It’s meaningless.
- I don’t care when a good piece of software is proprietary, as long as it still benefits me.

I’ll happily use free software like Firefox, because it’s good, not because it’s free. Free software isn’t a goal of its own to me.

Pragmatism only obtains meaning when goals are considered. You view Mr de Icaza’s attitude as “more pragmatic” because it aligns more closely with your own goals (i.e., just wanting to run Cool Stuff). For someone such as myself who wishes to avoid having to use unencumbered formats and non-Free software on my favorite OS, his attitude should be considered far from “pragmatic”.

No, it is more pragmatic. Pragmatic in the sense that Icaza has a certain set of ideals that he is willing to compromise to achieve his intended goal more effectively. You are idealistic, not willing to use proprietary software even when it offers an advantage, fair enough, but pragmatism isn’t a subjective term.

On the second point: you seem to have the impression that RIA and free information are in some sort of juxtaposition. How does the presence of a RIA environment exclude the presence of free information? Can you give me a reason why it’s not possible to write a Silverlight or Flash app that displays data from Wikipedia or that renders a ODF file, or plays an Ogg Vorbis song?

I’m not quite sure how the openness of data removes the need for a rich application that displays it? Or why you want that information to be accessed by a program installed on your machine, when there’s a reason why you made it a webbased app in the first place? I need a webbased rich environment, so there is a need for “running virtual machines which execute pseudo-code” (I’m not sure how Silverlight being a VM that runs bytecode is relevant, but OK) because the alternative (HTML+CSS+JS) is not adequate for all situations.

Neither do I know why openness of information is always desired. What if my business needs a RIA for its business processes?

Can you please explain how there’s a relevant relation between RIA and open information?

I greatly respect open source figures like de Icaza and Torvalds that have a more pragmatic attitude. Someone like de Icaza just wants all the Cool Stuff out there to run on his favorite OS.

Pragmatism only obtains meaning when goals are considered. You view Mr de Icaza’s attitude as “more pragmatic” because it aligns more closely with your own goals (i.e., just wanting to run Cool Stuff). For someone such as myself who wishes to avoid having to use unencumbered formats and non-Free software on my favorite OS, his attitude should be considered far from “pragmatic”.

Personally, I’d be pretty thrilled by Moonlight and lets face it, what other alternatives for RIA does the FOSS movement offer or support

The alternative to RIA is FOSS. There is no need for running virtual machines which execute pseudo-code if the information being processed is available in open, unencumbered formats. The fact that you are provided the source code to the applications needed to access and process the information — and empowered to modify it as necessary — permits you to port the application to any appropriate platform.

The way to provide a rich Internet experience is not by permitting websites to download “rich Internet applications” to my computer and execute those applications to access the data, but to provide the information in a Free format which applications already installed on my machine can access. The solution is not to find better ways to access information locked away in proprietary formats, but to never place imprison the information in the first place.

… as a user I couldn’t care less about Free Software. All I care about is Good Software.

You could just have started and stopped there.

I think this mindset is absolutely selfish, short-sighted and dangerous, but it’s not the point I’m arguing on this blog.

I’m not arguing Free Software is an important concept – that is a given for me – I’m arguing that this particular group of so-called pro-Free Software people are engaged in activities that harm more than help Free Software in general and Linux (among other projects) in specific.

If you don’t care about Free Software, then, as I said earlier to Richard, I hardly expect you to care if Free Software is injured.

The “all I care about is Good Software” seems a bit to me like saying “all I care about is the trains run on time”, but whatever.