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	<title>mono-nono &#187; Microsoft Interns</title>
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	<description>Fire is the one, who inspires and protects truth.</description>
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		<title>Quick! Change the sheets!</title>
		<link>http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/03/quick-change-the-sheets/</link>
		<comments>http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/03/quick-change-the-sheets/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[mono]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft Interns]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mono-nono.com/?p=84</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So our Strange Bedfellow, he of &#8220;Fuck you Richard Stallman&#8221; fame, fears he was taken &#8220;out of context&#8221; and risks besmirchment!
Let&#8217;s see what a few days of reflection have taught our young padawan.
Update 6-Jul-2009: In response to a personal request from the author I have removed the cached copies, and personal identification. 
Update 4-Jul-2009: The [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So our <a title="Self-link for self-pleasure" href="http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/02/strange-bedfellows/">Strange Bedfellow</a>, he of &#8220;Fuck you Richard Stallman&#8221; fame, fears he was taken &#8220;out of context&#8221; and risks besmirchment!</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see what a few days of reflection have taught our young padawan.<br />
<span id="more-84"></span><strong>Update 6-Jul-2009: In response to a personal request from the author I have removed the cached copies, and personal identification. </strong><br />
<strong>Update 4-Jul-2009: </strong>The author has removed the blog entry. [[REMOVED]] from Google&#8217;s cache. This is deliciously ironic, as he had taken dated screenshots of Boycott Novell as &#8220;proof&#8221;. [[REMOVED]]</p>
<blockquote><p>The crux of the article was that non-copyleft licenses were good, copy left licenses were evil, and why I felt so.</p></blockquote>
<p>Really? That&#8217;s not how I saw it &#8211; &#8220;GPL is evil&#8221; was certainly a <em>theme</em> &#8211; but to say that ill-informed rant actually had a <em>crux</em> is a bit generous. Whatever. I mean there were equal <em>themes</em> of how awesome &#8220;Mono and C#&#8221; were and &#8220;Patents and FUD&#8221;, all equally well-argued with the same level of intellectual rigor and informed debate.</p>
<p>Anyway, here are FuckYouMan&#8217;s concerns:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. It <strong>takes my *Disclaimer* out of context</strong>, and twists it. It doesn’t even link to the original article to verify authenticity.<br />
2. It makes it look like working on MD is part of my job description. It is not &#8211; for future reference.<br />
(for example, if you copied the text “working on MD is part of my job description” and pasted it somewhere, it would be utterly misleading. That’s what happened)<br />
3. Suddenly It’s written that I represent my employer, which I do not, and never wish to.<br />
4. “MonoDevelop helps Windows” because it has a community preview port? Emacs releases a windows port, and so does apache, python, and vi &#8211; but they never explicitly help Windows eh?</p></blockquote>
<p>A shocker: <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/29/microsoft-and-novell-for-mono-net/">what BoycottNovell </a>said was exactly 100% true and <strong>in context:</strong></p>
<ol>
<li>BN does not take the *Disclaimer* out of context. It is used a direct, factual quote establishing the background of the author.</li>
<li>No, it doesn&#8217;t. It makes it look like exactly what it is &#8211; there is some Microsoft intern working on MonoDevelop. Which, again, is 100% true.</li>
<li>Where exactly does it say you represent your employer? <strong>No one thinks that.</strong> You are an intern, no one thinks you deliver Microsoft policy. People think you deliver coffee.</li>
<li>Part of the contention around all things mono is that it helps Windows and Microsoft. That is a large part of the debate. This is not in/out-context, it is an editorial opinion on Boycott Novell&#8217;s part.</li>
</ol>
<p>And here&#8217;s a funny bit to cap it off:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Judge what I do and what I write by it’s own merits</strong>, and don’t bring an employer into it and complicate things.</p></blockquote>
<p>Right. Like what you wrote had any merit whatsoever. I mean you had the freaking Magna Carta there if only BoycottNovell didn&#8217;t talk about the stone-cold fact you intern at Microsoft? <strong>You are being judged on the merits</strong>. The thing that hurts is your content was guaranteed 100% merit-free, prepared in a merit-free environment for your health and safety.</p>
<blockquote><p>What’s worse, someone inside might think that I’m representing MS and my company thinks I’m to blame. I can take any amount of flames and corrections, but don’t put my <strong>career</strong> at risk, especially one that hasn’t even begun. This <strong>hurts my credibility</strong> and potentially my future prospects &#8211; no telling how many people pick up these things and mutilate it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Whoa. Who &#8220;hurt your credibility&#8221;? <strong>You did.</strong> You are the one who evacuated on the intertubes. Take responsibility and quit trying to blame others. <strong>You</strong> lead off with &#8220;Fuck you, Richard Stallman&#8221;. <strong>You</strong> called people &#8220;fear mongering assholes&#8221;. <strong>You </strong>divided the world into two people: lovers of open source and people who hate Microsoft &#8211; the stupidest thing I had read all day until I kept reading, by the way. <strong>You</strong> implied Richard Stallman was a hypocrite. <strong>You</strong> called the &#8220;GPL evil&#8221;. See where I&#8217;m going with this?</p>
<p>Your credibility is hurt because <strong>you aren&#8217;t credible.</strong></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>This post isn’t an opinion or a notice but more of a clarification</strong>. I’m <strong>done with ranting</strong> and I’ve learned my lesson to <strong>speak about positive, constructive topics</strong>. But it’s also a warning to take everything one reads with a pinch of salt. Tommorow an article on that website will reference my misfortune, and what was originally a <strong>misunderstanding becomes a lie</strong>, which becomes a proof of something to support an opinion or argument.</p></blockquote>
<p>Damn it man, <strong>take some responsibility</strong>. It wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;misunderstanding&#8221;. It was a seven course meal of stupid served by the maître d&#8217; of dipshits. Don&#8217;t pretend like your words were all twisted up by Evil Roy and his Band of Brigands. Even if Roy had come out a misrepresented your position and &#8220;official-ness&#8221; of the statement &#8211; <strong>which he did not</strong> &#8211; it still doesn&#8217;t affect the merit, content or offensiveness of your post.</p>
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		<title>Strange Bedfellows</title>
		<link>http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/02/strange-bedfellows/</link>
		<comments>http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/02/strange-bedfellows/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Moonlight]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mono]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft Interns]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[propositio]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mono-nono.com/?p=48</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the uncomfortable aspects of being a mono supporter is it puts you in an odd position in the FLOSS community. For example, you just might find [[someone obnoxious]] &#8220;helping&#8221; the cause.

2009-Jul-6 Update: Upon personal request from the author I have removed the cached copies, and am just quoting the body of the article [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the uncomfortable aspects of being a mono supporter is it puts you in an odd position in the FLOSS community. For example, you just might find [[someone obnoxious]] &#8220;helping&#8221; the cause.</p>
<p><span id="more-48"></span></p>
<p><strong>2009-Jul-6 Update: Upon personal request from the author I have removed the cached copies, and am just quoting the body of the article here, without links and personal identification.<br />
What follows quoted is the original text of the author:</strong><strong><br />
</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>Fuck you, Richard Stallman and other GNU/Trolls<br />
Published by admin on June 28, 2009 in Uncategorized<br />
.</p>
<p>This is a response to Richard Stallman’s article http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono</p>
<p>Disclosure: This rant doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that I intern at Microsoft and that I am writing an extension to the MonoDevelop project. It is a rant to express my core belief that freedom is open to interpretation. I believe viral copyleft licenses like GPL are evil, and I believe that software patents are more evil. While I’m new to the mono project, it aligns perfectly with my vision that they key for great programs is interoperability and ease of development.</p>
<p>Why am I writing this? I feel hurt when fear mongering assholes focus so much energy on bringing things down rather than really constructing anything. You never see any real open source developer complain, that’s because they’re too busy writing awesome code.</p>
<p>On Patents and the FUD:</p>
<p>* There are two kinds of open source users in the world &#8211; People who love open source, and people who hate microsoft and proprietary software. I’m part of the first, which one are you?<br />
* I know NOTHING about patent law and how dangerous having these applications on your machine can be. In other words, I know as much as you do about all of this<br />
* Most open source softwares replicate some features which may be patented. Do you think there won’t be patent issues over Openoffice or Gimp which replicate commercial software’s functionality.<br />
* A mentor of mine told me that patents are to prevent companies from getting sued, not to sue companies.<br />
* You don’t want to keep a free implementation of a language on your machine, but you are okay with downloading off bittorrent and aren’t worried about getting sued.<br />
* GNote represents the limit of FUD to me. Tomboy is awesome and Sandy Armstrong doubly so.<br />
* I’m no expert on patents, but “There might be risk” sounds just like “There might not be risk”. At the end the question is whether it’s finally worth it.<br />
* Please read Jo Shield’s article if my intellectually devoid rant hasn’t convinced you.<br />
* Roy Schestowitz (of boycottnovell.com) is a dick. Period. I would never respect anyone who spends more effort spreading fear and bringing things down rather than contributing anything significant.</p>
<p>On Mono and C#:</p>
<p>* Have a look at gnome-do, which runs on mono(http://do.davebsd.com). That thing you’re feeling when you open the link is pure undiluted lust lust.<br />
* Firefox has 80,000 lines of code. The MonoDevelop project has 800,000 lines. The Mono project (just mono) has 8 fucking million lines, let’s not forget the debugger, compiler and gtk# bindings. (ohloh.net)<br />
* I have met the nicest and most helpful people I know on the Mono project. Even the most busy and experienced of devs (hello mhutch and lluis!) take time off to help (and spoonfeed) me whenever I need.<br />
* C# is plain awesome. I used to think it was bloated and MS specific  (just like most of you), but an awesome standard library, coupled with type safety, innovative features and tight IDE integration make it a killer platform for development.<br />
* I could go on about how blissful an experience it is to write code in a full featured, statically typed language. But you’re too full of propoganda to listen.</p>
<p>My thoughts on the GPL:</p>
<p>* “Freedom or Death” is not freedom. Wikipedia defines freedom as “Freedom is the right to act according to ones will without being held up by the power of others.” How am I even remotely free if I *have* to license all my code under GPL if I use GPLed libraries? Isn’t the right for a person to release liberal or proprietary software come under his/her freedom too as long as it’s not harming anyone?<br />
* I want the freedom to use the BSD or MIT license in my projects. I’m preventing from even referencing GPL libraries (not LGPL) while I’m trying to make open source software available. How is this fair?<br />
* People need proprietary software for their livelihood. Yes dual licensing or selling GPLed code is possible &#8211; but maybe not completely feasible. A developer hoping to make a living from small games cannot use GPLed libraries because that would violate the law.<br />
* If Richard Stallman had to make a living from writing software rather than whatever he does, I’m curious how much of his code he’d really open-source.<br />
* I believe that projects can open source re-usable components (google =&gt; protocol buffers, facebook =&gt; thrift, microsoft =&gt; asp.net/mvc).<br />
* I will never shun anything because it’s proprietary licensing.<br />
* While I prefer open source projects like everyone because you can take a look at the inner working, there are only nine projects who’s sources I have truly looked into with good depth.<br />
* My idea of freedom includes the freedom to make it proprietary. It’s your code, you can do what you want with it. I prefer releasing under MIT/X11 license and that’s my choice.<br />
* While the GPL is all about choice, it doesn’t give me any real choice. I *have* no choice<br />
* Ironically, mono is largely GPL/LGPL as well.</p>
<p>My thoughts on interop and Dev productivity:</p>
<p>* Stop thinking about Microsoft for a second. They aren’t going away anywhere and no amount of software hippies are going to stop them.<br />
* Open source isn’t going anywhere either. Nowhere but above and ahead.<br />
* The mono project allows you to rapidly develop applications using a standard statically typed language and be assured of it being cross-platform.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve written a little bit of code and put it out there. My new project attempts to bring Mylyn’s functionality to MonoDevelop and so far it’s pretty okay. And yes, I am an ardent vi user.</p>
<p>Update:</p>
<p>Some very nice person wrote out an entire response to my post, pointing out where I’m wrong. You can find it here. I am grateful as he/she clarified that Open Source is different from Free Software. For some reason, I can’t seem to read that much text without it being punctuated by images or code blocks.</p>
<p>Anyways, I repsonded and will cross-post here (man I haven’t typed this much plaintext in a while)</p>
<p>Thank you for englightening me. I have not the patience or the caliber to respond, and so I will concede defeat.</p>
<p>I have nothing to say. I honestly never did. I’m an obscure Indian student, and like writing some code now and then, playing my guitar and enjoying my college years.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I’m a nice person who believes in the kindness of humanity. I am never worried about patents or companies or FUD. This was nonsense to me a few months ago.</p>
<p>I too thought the Mono project was something bad and evil like everyone else. There was one project which I tried to hack on and contribute and really liked the Mono stack.</p>
<p>Unlike most of the philosophies of the GNU project, I don’t say that some things are right and some things are wrong. I feel everything is right, some are more right than the others.</p>
<p>What hurts me is that the linux community is at war from the inside over a core project that’s so old and mature, it’s not going to go away. Nobody wants a compromise, and flames fly left and right.</p>
<p>If you really like a project and want to contribute in the future to it, and someone like rms, who everyone looks up to tries to cripple it by flagging it as dangerous. Then you’ll know how I feel, let alone the people who *really* contribute to the project.</p>
<p>Please realize that beneath all this patent nonsense, there are *real people* who are caring enough to passionately contribute. Miguel de Icaza has been writing open source code before I even knew what computer was, and he’s still ready to answer any questions I have on IRC.</p>
<p>This passion to help the rest of the world without getting anything back, is almost like philanthrophy. You see it in every project, you see it in Wikipedia, you see it when people get together to work on a cause bigger than themselves.</p>
<p>That, to me is the spirit of Open Source &#8211; not a License or a set of rules.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I can’t give you answers, world peace, a solution to this whole patent issue, give rms a girlfriend (or give rms a mrs.).</p>
<p>Luckily, I have the next best thing for you. Here’s metallica’s “creeping death”:</p></blockquote>
<p>Here we have a &#8230; gentleman &#8230; (a Microsoft intern and MonoDevelop contributor, in fact) expressing his &#8220;personal opinion&#8221;. Oh my, how droll! Let&#8217;s see what this bastion of rational thinking and considered opinion offers:</p>
<blockquote><p>I believe viral copyleft licenses like GPL are evil, and I believe that software patents are more evil.</p></blockquote>
<p>Alright! First off, my man you are an intern at a company renowned for not only using <a title="My link is my cite." href="http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/02/aggresive-perfector/">software patents aggressively</a>, but also continues to lobby countries that do not have US-style software patents to get on board with the patent program. <strong>By your own arguments</strong>, you are working for an evil company. You&#8217;re not off to a good start, scooter.</p>
<blockquote><p>I got a considerable bit of email from people carefully pointing out all the tiny little crevices I’m wrong in.</p></blockquote>
<p>News flash, sparky: they aren&#8217;t &#8220;tiny little crevices&#8221;. You are piloting the <em>Trieste</em> straight to the floor of the Mariana Trench of Ignorance.</p>
<p>But wait! Here lies a noble soul:</p>
<blockquote><p>I understand what free software and open source is and was going to use part of my first paycheck to get a student membership into the FSF.</p></blockquote>
<p>I doubt you did understand, nor do you now, but I bet you&#8217;ve learned <em>something</em>. I don&#8217;t understand exactly what this means, though? You <em>were</em> going to get a membership? Is that before you realized that the GPL was &#8220;evil&#8221;? I mean, where you just going to join the FSF so you could whip out your member card and pretend you were some sort of hip &#8220;Open Source Dudez&#8221;? Because the FSF has pretty much always stood for the same things. GPL being one of them. So were you joining an organization you didn&#8217;t really understand, or is this something that you have recently changed your mind on, now that Stallman has laid out an entirely rational argument?</p>
<p>Oh, and there&#8217;s this:</p>
<blockquote><p>People take this as an attack on the GPL or RMS.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, in fairness you <strong>did</strong> start off originally with &#8220;Fuck you, Richard Stallman&#8221;. It wasn&#8217;t really much of a stretch to take <strong>that</strong> as an attack. Oh, and the bit about the GPL being &#8220;evil&#8221;. A bit attack-ishy, that, as well.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s get that good old-fashion reasoning! Let&#8217;s see <strong>why</strong> the GPL is &#8220;evil&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>2. I wanted to use some technology for a startup with me and my friends but that would be invalidated in terms of the license.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, you wanted to take someone else&#8217;s hard work and profit from it, and not have to recompense them or the community that provided it. Well, guess what, the GPL prevents that &#8211; it&#8217;s sort of one of the major points of the GPL. You basically want to <strong>steal</strong> from the original programmer. In this situation there was <em>something</em> &#8220;evil&#8221;, but it was not the GPL. You&#8217;ll fit right in at Microsoft!</p>
<p>A gross ignorance of Free Software, Open Source and GPL permeates virtually every sentence of the blog, and <a title="Beat me to it!" href="http://crankyoldnutcase.blogspot.com/2009/06/response-to-fuck-you-richard-stallman.html">The Mad Hatter </a>handles the rebuttal quite well, but let&#8217;s take look at one more note of interest:</p>
<blockquote><p>While I’m new to the mono project, it aligns perfectly with my vision that they key for great programs is interoperability and ease of development.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is probably a lot truer than he or the mono project realizes. Time and time again, the arguments of &#8220;practicality&#8221; and &#8220;don&#8217;t concern yourself with politics&#8221; and &#8220;I&#8217;m not going to worry about that&#8221; roll off the tongues of the mono apologist. There are other important considerations beyond &#8220;interoperability&#8221; and &#8220;ease of development&#8221;.</p>
<p>More on that later!</p>
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